Project Sambaad- Where Rubber Meets the Road: The Ground Realities of Doing Business in Nepal

[00:00:00] Welcome to Project Sambad.

[00:00:06] Project Sambad is a collaborative platform that promotes in-depth conversations that critically

[00:00:10] examine Nepali society and its policy making space.

[00:00:14] Through Project Sambad, PEI and other like-minded organizations seek to explore broad impactful

[00:00:20] questions that contribute to a wider dialogue on the politics and development of Nepal

[00:00:26] and the South Asia region.

[00:00:28] In just two days, we had six immersive and interactive panels on relevant contemporary

[00:00:33] topics from development, migration to business.

[00:00:36] Sambad comes to life when it reaches a wider audience and that's why we're sharing live

[00:00:41] recordings of the conversations.

[00:00:44] In today's release, we have guest speakers Samaik Shahrai and Shabda Gewali with host

[00:00:49] Anup Upreti in a Sambad on Where Rubber Meets the Road, the ground realities of doing

[00:00:55] business in Nepal.

[00:00:57] We hope you enjoy the conversation.

[00:01:35] Hi, good afternoon.

[00:01:44] I couldn't play the whole song but for that you'll have to come to Musicology tomorrow

[00:01:49] after party.

[00:01:50] So I'm Anup Rajupreti.

[00:01:52] I'm a corporate lawyer from Pioneer Law Society.

[00:01:56] We'll be discussing about entrepreneurship and the issues related to that in this

[00:02:01] particular session.

[00:02:03] I'll give you the context of why I played that song as well but let me first finish

[00:02:09] that introduction here and Shabda if you could.

[00:02:12] Hi, good afternoon.

[00:02:13] I'm Shabda Gewali.

[00:02:14] I'm the head of investment at Dolma Impact Fund.

[00:02:17] Dolma Impact Fund is a private equity fund.

[00:02:19] We have invested in 16 companies from start-up to infrastructure projects.

[00:02:23] Good afternoon everyone.

[00:02:26] I am Sambik Shahrai, the CEO and co-founder of Pack My Lunch.

[00:02:30] Pack My Lunch is a food service management company established in 2013.

[00:02:34] We have different verticals in our business including corporate catering, canteen management

[00:02:40] and event catering.

[00:02:43] Thank you.

[00:02:44] So I think when we're talking about entrepreneurship and the business and the problems we have

[00:02:50] in context of business environment.

[00:02:53] As a agrarian session here, we've discussed a lot.

[00:02:56] Nepal, Kothi Boninu, Kothi Boninu, Kosko Lagi Boninu, Kosko Lagi Boninu.

[00:03:01] So that was I think a very interesting discussion to say like our ambition.

[00:03:06] The Nepal context, where do we want to kind of see ourselves?

[00:03:11] What is our ambition?

[00:03:12] What are key discussions in the context?

[00:03:15] What are the other two or three themes that I think is going to be relevant

[00:03:19] for Azagot discussion.

[00:03:22] We talk about demographic dividend, one of the key assets Nepal has is young

[00:03:27] skilled population.

[00:03:29] We talked about migration in earlier session and what that means for businesses in Nepal

[00:03:35] and how that might be pushing up the wages.

[00:03:37] So that was another thematic context that was discussed.

[00:03:41] But let me start with that song and why that song is I think relevant for today's

[00:03:47] discussion is I think that song is well written to really say what are politics

[00:03:52] is like, how our leaders is like.

[00:03:55] The theme is Thukka Netaji, right?

[00:03:57] So basically I think that's what a lot of us feel that and it was discussed in today's

[00:04:03] discussion was politicians, the politics have failed us.

[00:04:09] I think that was one theme that is really running across the context.

[00:04:14] I think there's another theme also that Nepal Makhay was one in narrative.

[00:04:18] I recently read a headline in newspaper, basically one of the congress leaders saying

[00:04:24] that Nepal Makhay is not something like that.

[00:04:26] Congress will solve that problem in the context.

[00:04:31] So context to discuss business and entrepreneurship we're looking at is

[00:04:35] one and politicians have not done their job and there's general frustration

[00:04:41] even for people who are working that in Nepal nothing happens.

[00:04:45] So that's the kind of context.

[00:04:47] I think in this context I also wanted to add is recently we had a very unfortunate

[00:04:54] event one of the entrepreneur Prem Prasad Atsade took his own life and in that

[00:04:59] process he left some recommendations on improving business environment in Nepal.

[00:05:04] So some of the points I think what he raised is kind of relevant and which has

[00:05:09] not changed as well.

[00:05:11] So one of the things he said is credit recovery is very difficult in Nepal.

[00:05:17] Those who are in distribution model when manufacturing, when they sell to big

[00:05:22] chains, big mud, bad protein or others, recovery has been a problem and that

[00:05:28] also adds cost to the business.

[00:05:31] So that was one issue that is kind of written.

[00:05:35] Another one is he's kind of said about implement land leasing system,

[00:05:40] all definitely in agribusinesses we don't have regular to raise him really

[00:05:44] well enough to really structure how land use is there, land lease is there,

[00:05:50] how it is done so that is one.

[00:05:51] Another one is he closed all online soft that has not been registered.

[00:05:57] So again this is another example of regulatory non-compliances where they

[00:06:01] make laws, they don't implement and people who comply with the laws

[00:06:05] bear the cost and you just want to be a Nepal style kind of

[00:06:09] entrepreneur you don't bear that cost.

[00:06:11] So it creates that disparity and there's no level playing field asset.

[00:06:17] So that is one issues again very relevant for us.

[00:06:21] Another one he talked about was legalized cannabis farming.

[00:06:24] Again, it does have very economic potential, Nepal could do really well but

[00:06:29] why don't we discuss about that?

[00:06:31] Why can't we really in terms of policy setting,

[00:06:35] formulation why are we really kind of not discussing that context?

[00:06:38] So I just wanted to give you this context before we start and

[00:06:43] the way we want, we know the discussion we'll have is except for

[00:06:47] me to have both of us are not really entrepreneurs.

[00:06:50] So we have three entrepreneurs here will really hear from people who

[00:06:55] been on the ground doing their stuff and I think what we want to do

[00:07:00] is kind of analyze that put that context and let's see if there is any

[00:07:04] takeaway that can we can take.

[00:07:07] Before we go into that I just wanted to pick up on some of this aspiration

[00:07:12] Nepal has.

[00:07:13] So Nepal has in 15th plan I think our ambition has been that in 20 years time

[00:07:22] our poor capital income should be $12,100 US dollars.

[00:07:27] So I think currently it's $13 something and to do that we have

[00:07:32] to grow at the rate of 10.5% every year so that is some data that we have

[00:07:38] and to contribute that growth we have ambition of 30% coming from

[00:07:43] manufacturing sector, 60% coming from service sector.

[00:07:48] I think in this context I want to go to Sabda and can you please rationalize

[00:07:53] all of this data and any other data you think is appropriate?

[00:07:56] Sure thank you Anup.

[00:07:58] First of all I think what I want to correct Anup is that he's also a great

[00:08:04] entrepreneur he runs a very successful business and it's a law firm but it's

[00:08:07] a business at the end of the day right.

[00:08:11] So talking about data you know I'm not an economist by the only economics

[00:08:17] I have is from my degree in economics from undergrad but you know

[00:08:22] I'm not sure if it's from my degree or from my rationalization

[00:08:26] but I've studied it from my degree last 12 years and I've studied it from my degree

[00:08:31] and this is the data and why is it making sense or why is it not making sense?

[00:08:38] Like what Anup was saying that 10.5% growth rate every year which is real GDP

[00:08:44] so it's a real in the nominal real but it's an inflation

[00:08:47] and it's a growth rate of 18%

[00:08:51] but 10% growth can we achieve it?

[00:08:55] You know we definitely have to aim for it

[00:08:57] so we have to aim for it but what can we do?

[00:09:00] What has worked and what has not worked?

[00:09:03] So I'm thinking about it and I've jotted some point down.

[00:09:07] Last five years when there is a growth of 3.2%

[00:09:12] last five years yes we can

[00:09:14] when Bukamba came, COVID came, Nakabandhi came

[00:09:18] but our growth has not reached 6.48%

[00:09:24] so what was the reason?

[00:09:26] So if you ponder around it

[00:09:30] so what we see is that our growth has always been consumption driven

[00:09:38] so what we need is growth has to be driven through investment in the productive sector

[00:09:44] so the growth of the consumption is in the productive sector

[00:09:47] production is not in the asset

[00:09:49] and the job is created in the growth

[00:09:52] so we have to build in the road time, in the building time

[00:09:56] both in the private sector and in the public sector

[00:09:58] that's enough

[00:09:59] Yes we have to put in more money

[00:10:02] I'll come to where that money will come from

[00:10:04] the second thing is, our project planning is not there

[00:10:06] it's not just we blame the government saying

[00:10:09] that we have to give the project time and deal with the project

[00:10:13] but let's look at the project of the private sector

[00:10:17] any project, the proposals of the bank, I'll make it in Hyderabad or a hotel

[00:10:21] any time

[00:10:23] so the project planning from both the government sector is also poor

[00:10:27] but the private sector has to be improved, that's why it's important

[00:10:31] the third is productivity

[00:10:32] that's why it's more bank to the work

[00:10:36] because one rupee has to be increased by multiplying the effects

[00:10:41] and what we cannot afford is we have very little resources

[00:10:45] we have to multiply the effects of the oil by increasing

[00:10:48] so that is where we have to focus on the taxa

[00:10:53] but the growth achieved by the 10.5% taxa

[00:11:00] how do we do it better?

[00:11:05] the first thing I said is where is the money

[00:11:09] show me the money, where will the money come from?

[00:11:11] if you look at the deposit of the private sector

[00:11:16] or the bank and the deposit back

[00:11:17] it's 46 billion dollars

[00:11:19] our GDP is 100% or 101%

[00:11:23] that's why 10-15% growth

[00:11:28] which means we have to get additional from the 10 billion dollars

[00:11:32] what we also need is that we don't get the same growth

[00:11:36] what we are also saying is

[00:11:38] this is the last year of oil, 2.2% growth

[00:11:44] that's why the growth is 2.4%

[00:11:49] and the money comes from the camera

[00:11:50] now we are talking about sustainable development goals

[00:11:55] we have to export 10,000 megawatts in 10 years

[00:11:59] the back up of the envelope calculation

[00:12:04] that money is around 5-6 billion dollars

[00:12:08] we don't have the domestic money

[00:12:10] we are growing it by 3%

[00:12:11] and it's 5-6 billion dollars

[00:12:13] the FDI is there

[00:12:14] today the FDI is around 175 million dollars

[00:12:17] which we need

[00:12:20] it's around 175 million dollars

[00:12:23] and we are doing a lot of things

[00:12:26] now the second point I was trying to make

[00:12:29] is that the more bank to the back

[00:12:31] the more credit flow

[00:12:34] if you look at the credit flow of the banks

[00:12:36] to our private sector

[00:12:38] the growth has been good

[00:12:39] and the central bank actually says

[00:12:41] that we need to increase the growth

[00:12:43] and reduce the growth

[00:12:45] and the productive asset

[00:12:46] the credit has to fuel productive growth

[00:12:49] and this is probably where we could do better

[00:12:52] in terms of investment

[00:12:54] to credit all the incentive there

[00:12:58] the productive sector

[00:13:00] all the body incentive there

[00:13:02] cost of debt

[00:13:04] incentives there

[00:13:06] this will mobilize

[00:13:08] from an international front

[00:13:10] what we are clear

[00:13:12] doesn't matter which government it is

[00:13:14] be it communist or capitalist

[00:13:16] what is very clear is

[00:13:18] we need to get money out of it

[00:13:20] but what is the point

[00:13:22] what are the things that needs to be done better

[00:13:24] we need to do that

[00:13:26] I'll just quickly point out

[00:13:28] the things that we need to do

[00:13:30] the first thing is

[00:13:32] the Amritsar

[00:13:34] it's a lot of foreign companies

[00:13:36] who are doing this

[00:13:38] the currency is an issue

[00:13:40] if you think about it in 2014

[00:13:42] Nepal is a very good country

[00:13:44] in 2014, Nepalis were around

[00:13:46] like 1 dollar was around 100

[00:13:48] 105 Nepalis

[00:13:50] now it's 130 to 133

[00:13:52] last 10 years

[00:13:54] we could have depreciated

[00:13:56] 30%

[00:13:58] and so to 30%

[00:14:00] how can we get back

[00:14:02] that's something we have to crack

[00:14:04] foreign currency

[00:14:06] it's very important to bring in more capital

[00:14:08] for more growth

[00:14:10] the second thing

[00:14:12] is

[00:14:14] all around the world

[00:14:16] climate finance

[00:14:18] and climate mitigation is a big issue

[00:14:20] so we have to tap into the climate finance

[00:14:22] we can

[00:14:24] we have projects, we have opportunity

[00:14:26] we have the location

[00:14:28] so this has to be done a lot more

[00:14:30] third is

[00:14:32] this is you know

[00:14:34] I saw him earlier

[00:14:36] but in Gorkha Patram

[00:14:38] there's no interest

[00:14:40] and road show

[00:14:42] has to be outside Nepal

[00:14:44] road show

[00:14:46] has to be outside Nepal

[00:14:48] and we have to show

[00:14:50] what we need to do

[00:14:52] is we need to show

[00:14:54] track record

[00:14:56] track record in the sense that

[00:14:58] how much money we have

[00:15:00] how much money we have

[00:15:02] and that is where the money will flow

[00:15:04] so that's point number 3

[00:15:06] number 4

[00:15:08] break this myth is

[00:15:10] every time we see

[00:15:12] that foreign currency is not coming

[00:15:14] so it's not working for government

[00:15:16] I've been doing

[00:15:18] I've been bringing in FDI since last

[00:15:20] 12 years, I've been in the sector

[00:15:22] I've been the DOI

[00:15:24] and Rastabang

[00:15:26] experiences

[00:15:28] but what to say

[00:15:30] first it took 13 months

[00:15:32] but today it's still 3 months

[00:15:34] or 2 months

[00:15:36] and it's still a stream line

[00:15:38] and the government

[00:15:40] has to do all the

[00:15:42] things

[00:15:44] that can be done

[00:15:46] by human intervention

[00:15:48] but just

[00:15:50] what we need to do

[00:15:52] for Rastabang

[00:15:54] we also have to go outside

[00:15:56] to attract money

[00:15:58] fifth and most important

[00:16:00] is

[00:16:02] outbound

[00:16:04] so people will come here

[00:16:06] if there is a hydro to build here

[00:16:08] for sectors like

[00:16:10] IT

[00:16:12] in IT, open up the money

[00:16:14] and when people come outside

[00:16:16] they don't sell the money

[00:16:18] you have to go outside

[00:16:20] you have to go out and do sales

[00:16:22] that's where

[00:16:24] I think we need to focus on this

[00:16:26] because our GDP growth is growing

[00:16:28] thank you

[00:16:30] so I think the conclusion

[00:16:32] is just

[00:16:34] you want to add something

[00:16:36] I just want to add one thing

[00:16:38] which is that although Nepal Rastabang

[00:16:40] is a very credible source

[00:16:42] for this kind of information

[00:16:44] we have no personal data

[00:16:46] internal data collection

[00:16:48] when we look at for example

[00:16:50] we are looking at the food inflation price

[00:16:52] according to Nepal Rastabang

[00:16:54] last year

[00:16:56] February

[00:16:58] there is a 6.5% increase

[00:17:00] whereas our internal data

[00:17:02] states that there is a 10.5% increase

[00:17:04] so I think all of this also

[00:17:06] affects our eventual

[00:17:08] goal to get where we want to

[00:17:10] because the data is not matching up

[00:17:12] and that affects me as a business person

[00:17:14] but then I think we will speak about it later

[00:17:16] I think this issue about really

[00:17:18] you know

[00:17:20] where is the next growth

[00:17:22] coming up and in terms of

[00:17:24] entrepreneurs

[00:17:26] quality of data that we have

[00:17:28] can we really plan for the future

[00:17:30] based on what we read

[00:17:32] with the office of data

[00:17:34] I think that's the issue

[00:17:36] so I will want to go to and then

[00:17:38] hear from the experience of

[00:17:40] entrepreneurs and I think

[00:17:42] generally is the issue about

[00:17:44] what are the issues in

[00:17:46] your particular business

[00:17:48] if you could give me like 5 top

[00:17:50] problems that you have

[00:17:52] or you just may not have any problems

[00:17:54] what is your ambition, what is your growth

[00:17:56] and what is the purpose of

[00:17:58] implementing that growth

[00:18:00] I think is really interesting to

[00:18:02] really discuss

[00:18:04] and also if we know we talked

[00:18:06] about a lot about demographic

[00:18:08] dividend if that is really

[00:18:10] helping your business or not

[00:18:12] there's something we will also

[00:18:14] kind of discuss later but

[00:18:16] in that context if you could

[00:18:18] just add that as well

[00:18:20] I'll go to Prithivi first

[00:18:22] and just introduce your business

[00:18:24] and then I'll go to the

[00:18:26] next slide

[00:18:28] before telling my problems

[00:18:32] I want to start with

[00:18:34] the opportunities I've seen

[00:18:36] with my business and I'm really excited

[00:18:38] to have started my startup

[00:18:40] in Nepal

[00:18:42] I'm Prithvi Kallan Parazuli

[00:18:44] I'm an entrepreneur at Posilo Foods

[00:18:46] we currently manufacture different varieties

[00:18:48] of sattu and

[00:18:50] we are expanding our networks in Nepal

[00:18:52] so the opportunity that

[00:18:54] we see being

[00:18:56] a Nepali entrepreneur is that

[00:18:58] we have India and China

[00:19:00] as our neighboring nation

[00:19:02] and India and China

[00:19:04] they carry more than 2.5 billion

[00:19:06] population

[00:19:08] roughly approximately 8 billion

[00:19:10] population

[00:19:12] they have more than 2.5 billion

[00:19:14] population and they excite me

[00:19:16] as a Nepali entrepreneur

[00:19:18] why do I say that

[00:19:20] we have already easy access to travel

[00:19:22] and we have also gone to China

[00:19:24] if we have

[00:19:26] we can go to India and learn

[00:19:28] it's just a full population

[00:19:30] that doesn't come with a whole 8 billion

[00:19:32] population

[00:19:34] I can see a huge gate

[00:19:36] of India and China

[00:19:38] and moving on to that

[00:19:40] I want to say

[00:19:42] as a Nepali producer

[00:19:44] what I want from

[00:19:46] Nepali policy makers is

[00:19:48] to at least

[00:19:50] we need to expand our business

[00:19:52] this is a very simple environment

[00:19:54] we

[00:19:56] in India and China

[00:19:58] we want to expand our business

[00:20:00] that's what we call the root

[00:20:02] we want to make it a local distributor

[00:20:04] we want to export

[00:20:06] and export

[00:20:08] and then we have to

[00:20:10] do marketing activities

[00:20:12] distributors will not look after that

[00:20:14] we will set up their business

[00:20:16] we will

[00:20:18] invest in it and then we will

[00:20:20] do marketing

[00:20:22] and then we will have the exhibition

[00:20:24] of our products

[00:20:26] we will be able to expand our products

[00:20:28] in that market

[00:20:30] now we have legal source

[00:20:32] legally we will

[00:20:34] spend money on

[00:20:36] our product marketing

[00:20:38] what we have here is

[00:20:40] 25% service tax

[00:20:42] so we are already out of the competition

[00:20:44] we have our products

[00:20:46] Indian local producers

[00:20:48] we have to do marketing

[00:20:50] but how can we be able

[00:20:52] to brand our products in countries like this

[00:20:54] and how to expand

[00:20:56] in other countries

[00:20:58] so this is a gateway

[00:21:00] at least with India and China

[00:21:02] we have this opportunity

[00:21:04] to expand our business

[00:21:06] I think

[00:21:08] we need to make a policy

[00:21:10] of the environment

[00:21:12] I will understand this

[00:21:14] the second problem I see is

[00:21:16] in the grass fruit level of Nepal

[00:21:18] we have a problem

[00:21:20] what we are trying to do is

[00:21:22] to add value to

[00:21:24] the products of Nepal

[00:21:26] we have to sell them globally

[00:21:28] and what is in this

[00:21:30] is that we have to

[00:21:32] contract with the farmers

[00:21:34] earlier we had a panel

[00:21:36] we have to

[00:21:38] contract and then

[00:21:40] we will give inflation

[00:21:42] we have to

[00:21:44] experience real

[00:21:46] inflation

[00:21:48] and when the price is high

[00:21:50] we have to

[00:21:52] do contract agriculture

[00:21:54] and the farmers

[00:21:56] will have to sell the product

[00:21:58] and other people will come

[00:22:00] and they offer more money than the contract

[00:22:02] the farmers will sell the product

[00:22:04] and they will say that there are contracts

[00:22:06] no one will see it

[00:22:08] so how can we strengthen

[00:22:10] this is the point

[00:22:12] I had a third problem

[00:22:14] I had to mention it in the first place

[00:22:16] but this problem

[00:22:18] is that

[00:22:20] we have brought an idea

[00:22:22] after bringing the idea

[00:22:24] we will have to wait 2 months

[00:22:26] for the registration

[00:22:28] we have seen

[00:22:30] recent news

[00:22:32] we have used some channels

[00:22:34] we have seen the company

[00:22:36] running in 2 days

[00:22:38] we have also come to the share log

[00:22:40] but the reality of the entrepreneur

[00:22:42] is that it takes 14 days

[00:22:44] and in 2 months

[00:22:46] the idea of the entrepreneur

[00:22:48] is being developed

[00:22:50] in frustration

[00:22:52] the business background

[00:22:54] has the patience to come

[00:22:56] the technical background

[00:22:58] has the entrepreneur to handle

[00:23:00] all this

[00:23:02] and moving on to the next problem

[00:23:04] I see

[00:23:06] a unique product of Nepal

[00:23:08] I have to identify

[00:23:10] I have seen

[00:23:12] a problem in the ground

[00:23:14] we have started

[00:23:16] mapping the farmers

[00:23:18] we have Chinese ingredients

[00:23:20] and we have to sell

[00:23:22] Nepali products

[00:23:24] we have a lawyer in Nepal

[00:23:26] who is excited

[00:23:28] in India, China

[00:23:30] he has a Mexican restaurant

[00:23:32] in Nepal

[00:23:34] and he has a problem

[00:23:36] Nepal is a Christian

[00:23:38] he is married

[00:23:40] he researches in America

[00:23:42] researches in India

[00:23:44] he gives a hybrid view

[00:23:46] he has a farmer

[00:23:48] he has an avocado

[00:23:50] he says it is a unique view

[00:23:52] Nepal is married

[00:23:54] and he has a unique product of Nepal

[00:23:56] that is China

[00:23:58] and Nepal is a super food

[00:24:00] just like we have to find out

[00:24:02] the

[00:24:23] So, this is what is happening.

[00:24:25] Just in the village, in the village,

[00:24:28] there are people coming in the season.

[00:24:30] They don't leave tips.

[00:24:32] And they are also coming to foreign products.

[00:24:35] And local farmers are also coming.

[00:24:37] They are not in their productivity.

[00:24:39] They are not in their productivity

[00:24:41] to grow avocado.

[00:24:43] They are not in their productivity to grow different types of nuts.

[00:24:47] And that's why we sell Nepali products.

[00:24:50] We don't just grow GDP,

[00:24:54] we have to sell our products by virus.

[00:24:58] We want unique products to sell by virus.

[00:25:01] We want to sell other products in Nepal

[00:25:04] and sell them abroad.

[00:25:06] We want unique products.

[00:25:08] Foreigners will be excited to eat Nepal's Satu.

[00:25:12] They want to eat the Satu of Nepal.

[00:25:14] They want to eat the Satu of Europe.

[00:25:16] They want to eat the Satu of Nepal.

[00:25:18] They want to establish a brand.

[00:25:21] They want to establish a government level

[00:25:24] and have a good identification.

[00:25:26] What our real product is.

[00:25:28] And we want to compete in Nepal.

[00:25:31] We want to give Nepalis products

[00:25:34] that can be hot.

[00:25:36] At least, I would say that they can be hot.

[00:25:39] And imported products that can be hot.

[00:25:42] We can raise that from 13% up to 20%.

[00:25:45] We can produce Nepali products in Nepal

[00:25:48] and compete in Nepal.

[00:25:51] Our reality is that the village of Nepal

[00:25:55] or the village of Russia,

[00:25:58] the village of India,

[00:26:00] the village of Russia is very difficult to find.

[00:26:03] But we are as a posilofoods.

[00:26:06] We are always trying to source grains from Nepali farmers.

[00:26:09] And abroad, we have products like this.

[00:26:12] We have made our products

[00:26:14] to empower Nepali farmers.

[00:26:17] We want to know about our products.

[00:26:20] So, we have to take tax.

[00:26:23] I think government should take good care of it.

[00:26:26] We have discussed this last time.

[00:26:29] We have to raise the issue of the problem.

[00:26:33] It is very important to have a product like this

[00:26:36] that is not a Nepal standard.

[00:26:38] Nepali manufacturers like Nepal

[00:26:42] have to take the dual price.

[00:26:45] The other products are cheaper.

[00:26:48] This is what I am reminding you of.

[00:26:51] Yes, we started the research of baby food

[00:26:54] in the back end.

[00:26:57] We implemented it and

[00:27:00] we are getting ready for market.

[00:27:03] We have come to standardization.

[00:27:06] But what should we do?

[00:27:09] We have to apply for local produce

[00:27:12] and also for imported companies.

[00:27:15] We have to apply for imported companies.

[00:27:18] Then we are out of the competition.

[00:27:20] We have to compromise in quality.

[00:27:22] We have to do it with local manufacturers.

[00:27:24] But we have to do it with a nutritional level.

[00:27:26] The same application.

[00:27:28] We had said this before.

[00:27:30] We have to do it online.

[00:27:32] We have to implement the same thing.

[00:27:35] We can do it with local products.

[00:27:37] We have to do it in terms of the cost of a business.

[00:27:40] I think you raised this issue about

[00:27:43] subsidy policies here.

[00:27:46] When you discuss this,

[00:27:49] we have to apply for straw.

[00:27:53] That is also where things are happening.

[00:27:55] And you've also talked about

[00:27:57] your growth in the future.

[00:28:00] You have a plan to go all Nepal.

[00:28:03] So, we are trying to produce products in Nepal.

[00:28:08] Maybe something briefly on that, I think is very interesting to hear about that.

[00:28:13] Yes, now we are very much excited to launch 100% Nepali source products.

[00:28:20] We have a grant to use Nepali products.

[00:28:25] We are trying to use all super foods in Nepal.

[00:28:34] This is not the reason for discussing the problems.

[00:28:37] There are no such companies as Nepali indigenous producers.

[00:28:43] And the government level has to identify the input and the Nepal government side.

[00:28:52] We have to export and export the Nepali high value products.

[00:28:56] And we have to provide them with the best possible product.

[00:28:59] We know that the Chinese super foods are very expensive in the villages.

[00:29:06] We know that they are very expensive in the villages.

[00:29:08] We are not sure what the problem will be.

[00:29:10] We have come to know about the products in the villages.

[00:29:16] We are trying to convince farmers and aggregators.

[00:29:28] We take the guarantee of the products that we have produced.

[00:29:33] We try to convince them.

[00:29:36] I have such a realization that if we can take global, it will have really good value.

[00:29:45] We are working day and out.

[00:29:50] We are trying to make the quality standards of the products high.

[00:29:58] We have tried it in the private sector.

[00:30:01] But the police department is not sure about the implementation.

[00:30:06] I think it can make a bigger impact.

[00:30:09] We have to sell the products in Nepal.

[00:30:11] We have to sell the grains and grains.

[00:30:14] We have to sell the products in a unique way.

[00:30:19] We have to sell the products in a high value way.

[00:30:24] I see really good opportunity to do this.

[00:30:27] I have gone abroad and have met with foreign entrepreneurs.

[00:30:34] They are really excited about the products in Nepal.

[00:30:38] They are really excited to come to Nepal and to be a producer.

[00:30:42] I am excited to come abroad.

[00:30:45] I have met with the nutrition food sector.

[00:30:49] I think the sustainable economic growth is so important.

[00:30:59] You believe in the future?

[00:31:01] Yes, I do strongly believe.

[00:31:03] We have to keep our efforts in the future.

[00:31:07] But we have to give up.

[00:31:10] Just keep on doing what you believe.

[00:31:12] I think a good character of an entrepreneur.

[00:31:15] There are so many problems.

[00:31:17] It is really struggling but you have to work hard.

[00:31:21] That is the part.

[00:31:23] I am really excited.

[00:31:26] Thank you.

[00:31:28] I want to go to Rumi and then similar context.

[00:31:31] Whatever you want to share with us.

[00:31:34] Hi, my name is Rumi Singh.

[00:31:37] I am the CEO and co-founder of a company called Rumi.

[00:31:41] It is a frontier tech company.

[00:31:43] We are heavily involved in blockchain solutions.

[00:31:48] We currently have a solution called Rahat.

[00:31:52] It is a decentralized financial access platform.

[00:31:56] It is working towards supporting marginalized communities

[00:32:01] who are at risk of the impact of climate change.

[00:32:05] I also run a non-for-profit called Hamro Life Bank.

[00:32:14] Hamro Life Bank is an organization that is involved in cutting the stress

[00:32:19] of finding and managing blood and blood donors in Nepal.

[00:32:25] This means we work with blood banks,

[00:32:28] we work with corporates to run blood donation events

[00:32:31] and we have a hotline as well.

[00:32:33] I know there are some problems and challenges.

[00:32:37] I would like to start with the aspect

[00:32:43] of a tech company's perspective.

[00:32:50] We deal with a lot of unknowns when it comes to regulations

[00:32:54] and I think the clarity around it.

[00:32:57] Blockchain is a lot of baggage.

[00:33:02] It comes with the question of is it legal?

[00:33:05] We have spent a lot of time trying to get people on board

[00:33:08] and trying to get people to understand what it is

[00:33:11] and how it is different from crypto.

[00:33:14] That said, there are crypto-illegals in Nepal.

[00:33:17] I think we are really missing out with cannabis illegal.

[00:33:23] I think there is a huge potential for us to really work on that

[00:33:28] if that was legal but that is again completely different discussion.

[00:33:32] I don't want to go there.

[00:33:34] There are policies that are not clear.

[00:33:37] Especially the tech aspect.

[00:33:41] It feels like when you are an entrepreneur

[00:33:44] it feels like it is going to be jail time first

[00:33:47] and then the questions will come rather than the opposite part.

[00:33:50] The entrepreneurs who are really working in this space

[00:33:53] are really risking it and we are also trying to be in the safe space

[00:33:57] where we work within the regulations.

[00:33:59] Of course we are working within the regulations

[00:34:02] but it really stifles the creativity

[00:34:05] and the potential of getting in FDI in that aspect.

[00:34:11] Also I think the other problem is also you.

[00:34:14] The PR aspect is very bad, I would say.

[00:34:19] People are not clear.

[00:34:21] It is working for some, it is not working for some.

[00:34:25] The implementation is not there.

[00:34:27] So people are not aware of it.

[00:34:29] I know that you talked about doing a road show,

[00:34:32] going outside, getting that awareness out

[00:34:34] which is very important because just recently

[00:34:36] we are very focused on the social impact space.

[00:34:39] So I have a lot of conversations with potential impact investors

[00:34:42] and basically I just had a conversation with someone yesterday

[00:34:45] who said we don't invest in Nepal.

[00:34:47] Nepal is a very poor country.

[00:34:49] We are not able to do that.

[00:34:51] So do you have another entity?

[00:34:53] We would rather invest in the other entity if that is the option.

[00:34:56] I do have another entity because that is where

[00:34:59] we are looking as tech company

[00:35:02] to see where is the profit margin.

[00:35:05] So Nepal, if you have an opportunity or option

[00:35:09] to have a company elsewhere versus Nepal,

[00:35:13] what is the benefit?

[00:35:16] So for someone from a Nepali origin

[00:35:19] or Baidu Kusit is in Aru Thaban,

[00:35:21] there are so many of them who want to invest in Nepal

[00:35:24] but it is very restrictive.

[00:35:26] So Nepal's culture everything here,

[00:35:28] it is much easier here.

[00:35:30] We want to invest here but if the profit margin is decreasing

[00:35:33] then at some point I think Nepal will lose.

[00:35:36] So I feel like it's shameful,

[00:35:38] it would be a shame if we can't really leverage

[00:35:41] on the talent that's there.

[00:35:44] People who want to really, especially Nepali diaspora company

[00:35:48] recently had an interaction with this amazing diaspora group

[00:35:51] and they really want to come and do something in Nepal.

[00:35:54] Nepali no for Kpunia.

[00:35:56] So I have a history, like I was in the US for 13 years,

[00:35:58] I came back, I'm working here,

[00:36:00] I'm figuring out how to work things

[00:36:03] but there are so many other folks who may not be able

[00:36:06] to come to Nepal but still want to invest in Nepal.

[00:36:09] So how are we capturing that is also a question.

[00:36:13] Orko issue like it's a sano-sano kurama puni.

[00:36:17] So as a blockchain company again draw impact space

[00:36:21] even though we work some of the implementation

[00:36:23] is in Nepal, we're also very dependent on

[00:36:27] export income.

[00:36:29] So export income, go aspect ma puni,

[00:36:32] I know there were some good things that happened,

[00:36:34] 1% tax, gotayo which was great,

[00:36:36] I think that was very, very, that incentivized us.

[00:36:39] Now it's changed to 12.5,

[00:36:42] we don't know when we'll go back to 25%.

[00:36:44] How do we really like manage our financial projection,

[00:36:47] our growth, like that's really, really difficult

[00:36:50] I think again because the clarity is high,

[00:36:53] and things keep on changing

[00:36:55] and we don't know when things will switch

[00:36:57] and what would be available.

[00:36:59] So two parts, we're going to go through.

[00:37:01] Again export income, go aspect ma puni,

[00:37:04] example the daheri.

[00:37:06] When the income comes in,

[00:37:08] so we have to go through this speculation,

[00:37:10] we have to tell where the income is coming from,

[00:37:12] even if it's grant, right?

[00:37:14] So it's coming in from this aspect,

[00:37:16] your Aira sub, undergorsa.

[00:37:18] So the banks approve it, there's a hold

[00:37:20] because NRB has all of these questions.

[00:37:22] Now as a company,

[00:37:24] we have bills to pay,

[00:37:26] we have salaries to give,

[00:37:28] we can't not pay people for like months, right?

[00:37:31] So this go card and leg or daheri,

[00:37:33] the speculation comes in and it's very random.

[00:37:35] It's not that you know we have a checklist,

[00:37:37] we've done this, this, this, that,

[00:37:39] so it's done, the income is coming,

[00:37:41] we're all setting with the, you know,

[00:37:43] because sometimes the speculation,

[00:37:45] the questions are very different even for the same process.

[00:37:48] One time we had an incident where

[00:37:51] the income I owe, Hamle bank layer approved,

[00:37:54] we actually got the income,

[00:37:57] we you know gave it, pay the bills,

[00:38:00] salaries are distributed,

[00:38:02] and NRB said okay, you need to return

[00:38:04] the thing, we have to put a hold.

[00:38:06] We need to figure out what's happening.

[00:38:08] And how do we deal with that, right?

[00:38:10] So I feel like because the processes

[00:38:13] are not properly structured,

[00:38:15] I think that puts a lot of pressure on entrepreneurs,

[00:38:18] especially to pay and like the operations

[00:38:21] like lead go around here.

[00:38:22] So I think that itself is a very difficult aspect.

[00:38:25] Orcouay records,

[00:38:27] it's not for profit go share gharay,

[00:38:29] so which may be very different from the context here,

[00:38:32] but still we got a grant or some award

[00:38:38] or some investment from this group

[00:38:41] of Nepali American Medical Foundation better

[00:38:45] to support our initiative.

[00:38:47] It wasn't a lot, it was $18,000.

[00:38:50] The pain that I had to go through

[00:38:52] to just get to SWC,

[00:38:54] the process and everything was so difficult,

[00:38:57] I was like I don't want any money,

[00:38:59] you know not for profit,

[00:39:00] I'd rather not spend that money

[00:39:02] and the time present kawane, bhattadine,

[00:39:05] saapay zahna lay,

[00:39:06] that process is so difficult

[00:39:07] and I understand if I was getting a million dollars

[00:39:10] I would have done that,

[00:39:11] but I was just getting 18,000.

[00:39:14] So the 18,000 let the war thay thay,

[00:39:16] so I feel there should be some levels of like,

[00:39:20] it can't be a blanket approach for everyone

[00:39:23] because we are working with different aspects

[00:39:26] and everybody has this different kind of tier

[00:39:29] that they fall in.

[00:39:30] So all of these things can get a little frustrating at times

[00:39:34] but pretvileb on the vast,

[00:39:36] entrepreneurs we take risks,

[00:39:39] we find it's a safe space,

[00:39:41] we find loopholes

[00:39:43] and we work our way out

[00:39:45] and I know Chandrath is going to speak in a little bit

[00:39:48] but he's one of my kind,

[00:39:51] he's also into blockchain

[00:39:53] and he was just asking me

[00:39:54] abumon nipal maa start karno kulagi

[00:39:57] regulatory use maa, ko layi bonaz,

[00:39:59] I'm a novel, no?

[00:40:00] Just do your homework,

[00:40:02] just be safe, understand what are the legal,

[00:40:05] because obviously we can't do something illegal, right?

[00:40:07] Even though we believe,

[00:40:09] kaadha le koti deregh aur saap

[00:40:11] but we can't do the business around it

[00:40:13] because the country doesn't.

[00:40:14] I mean it's going to be a shame and a loss for the country

[00:40:17] so but I think as entrepreneurs

[00:40:20] we sort of have to look at abide by the rules

[00:40:23] so that we have our books clear,

[00:40:25] we don't do anything illegal or unethical

[00:40:29] but you know walk our way through

[00:40:31] so I would just pause there.

[00:40:32] So I think a very important point

[00:40:34] on this regulatory predictability

[00:40:36] that kind of relates to fund raising

[00:40:39] and investment raising in that sense

[00:40:41] and also the issue you've raised

[00:40:43] about getting funds and SWC to context

[00:40:46] or I'm living in a regulatory context

[00:40:48] but what regulars don't understand is

[00:40:51] how come people just give you money

[00:40:53] and they don't want any returns

[00:40:55] in the context of blended finance

[00:40:57] and we've been discussing with Central Bank

[00:40:59] and there are these funds

[00:41:01] sustainable funds they give

[00:41:03] to banks and they don't charge interest

[00:41:06] and after some years you just need to return the principle

[00:41:09] and the whole confusion is what is this?

[00:41:11] Is that a loan? Is that worth?

[00:41:13] Should this go to SWC?

[00:41:15] And alikati US pair it's kind of really difficult

[00:41:19] in this context.

[00:41:21] So also I think legality,

[00:41:23] illegality context is very interesting in Nepal

[00:41:26] look at right-sealing business

[00:41:29] definitely it was still illegal till sometime back

[00:41:33] some of the provinces have passed the law

[00:41:35] but during the time of the total law

[00:41:38] that's illegal business activity

[00:41:41] and we also had given opinions at that particular time

[00:41:46] to actually look at the law and say it's not permitted

[00:41:50] but entrepreneurs went ahead with that

[00:41:52] public bought in and it just became a mainstream

[00:41:56] transfer then prime minister has to intervene

[00:42:00] and said don't take regular traction

[00:42:02] and there was a lot of regularity forbearance in that context

[00:42:06] so in Nepal sometimes you need to

[00:42:09] not only in Nepal

[00:42:11] Air BNB comes there, Uber comes there worldwide

[00:42:14] so regulation is always behind

[00:42:17] and they try to catch up

[00:42:19] or they don't catch up sometimes

[00:42:21] it remains like that

[00:42:23] so it's very interesting to see what comes first

[00:42:26] the business or regulation

[00:42:28] this role of regulation

[00:42:30] they should play in terms of these businesses

[00:42:32] also in Nepal

[00:42:34] interesting example, the A3 motorcycle

[00:42:36] drove illegal bike

[00:42:38] they stole the bikes

[00:42:40] and bikes are now running on the street

[00:42:43] after 4-5 years

[00:42:45] they got the registration done

[00:42:47] I don't think that this happens in any other country

[00:42:50] so that's what I'm saying is really from a positive side of things

[00:42:54] because they've raised the funds

[00:42:56] they've manufactured motorcycles

[00:42:58] and they stole the motorcycles

[00:43:00] but our law is so back dated

[00:43:02] that they have to come after so many years

[00:43:04] and say now it is legal

[00:43:06] owners can really have that context

[00:43:08] so I think in Nepal there are some

[00:43:10] regulation contexts

[00:43:12] there are positive sides

[00:43:14] there's no way of knowing their reinforcement

[00:43:17] as long as you're in the right sharing

[00:43:19] or you're in the right sharing

[00:43:21] context

[00:43:23] regulatory forbearance is also one interesting aspect

[00:43:26] it does not give a predictability

[00:43:29] but still people can go around

[00:43:31] innovate so that's the context

[00:43:34] I just wanted to add as well

[00:43:36] I think the openness to understand is very important

[00:43:39] so view IP was the same thing

[00:43:41] it was illegal right

[00:43:43] view IP goparnita through khandaraboy

[00:43:45] I think jail, goya there were lots of things that happened

[00:43:47] that is still illegal

[00:43:49] that kind of view of a view IP is still illegal

[00:43:51] because I called

[00:43:53] calls through internet

[00:43:55] those are okay

[00:43:57] that's still illegal in that sense

[00:43:59] but anyway I think the regulation

[00:44:01] dolly bon answer is very important for them to have an open mind

[00:44:04] we've been actually going to

[00:44:06] NRB, CBI to really make them understand

[00:44:09] if you're gonna get people

[00:44:11] like jail, you need to understand

[00:44:14] why and what it is

[00:44:16] and I feel just very quickly

[00:44:18] the big part

[00:44:20] when the whole fiasco happened about crypto

[00:44:22] a few years ago

[00:44:24] they just put trade like oh it's bitcoins ban

[00:44:26] blockchain is banned but I think

[00:44:28] the understanding is also very important

[00:44:30] I'll go to Chandan

[00:44:32] just before that

[00:44:34] so just on this point

[00:44:36] you have a regulation by launee

[00:44:38] you have a regulation by launee

[00:44:40] so I can give you an example of private equity industry

[00:44:42] when we started private equity

[00:44:44] goparnita in Nepal

[00:44:46] when we started investing

[00:44:48] we were doing

[00:44:50] as a foreign investor

[00:44:52] there's a private equity association

[00:44:54] industry came

[00:44:56] 5, 7, 8 years down the line

[00:44:58] but what is also important

[00:45:00] is that track record to be created

[00:45:02] once you start doing

[00:45:04] the regulators will understand

[00:45:06] I know there's a risk

[00:45:08] of there's a risk to it

[00:45:10] but the theory one that

[00:45:12] if you can see the real examples

[00:45:14] of actually doing

[00:45:16] we have talked about this

[00:45:18] the private regulation and IC 60

[00:45:20] in total

[00:45:22] the mass momentum

[00:45:24] when people come

[00:45:26] they have to understand

[00:45:28] there's no other way

[00:45:30] so I think that's also very important

[00:45:32] that track record will be created

[00:45:34] so I want to go to Chandan

[00:45:36] but before that I'll explain why he is asking all the questions

[00:45:38] because once I told him something

[00:45:40] he lost his sleep for a week

[00:45:42] and I let the

[00:45:44] floaty

[00:45:48] I'm Chandan, co-founder of Alpana Labs

[00:45:50] and

[00:45:54] good?

[00:45:56] I'm Chandan, co-founder of Alpana Labs

[00:45:58] work in the space of blockchain

[00:46:00] and something called zero-nose groups

[00:46:04] first of all thank you for inviting me here

[00:46:06] Anupji

[00:46:08] I just want to pick on one idea here

[00:46:10] there are a lot of issues that have been raised

[00:46:12] by two of our amazing sort of entrepreneurs here

[00:46:16] I want to pick on the idea of

[00:46:18] offering equity to employees

[00:46:22] what is it?

[00:46:24] why is it important and why is it relevant

[00:46:26] for us?

[00:46:28] and I want to talk about the life of a startup

[00:46:30] founder

[00:46:32] as a startup, as a founder

[00:46:35] like one of my main priorities

[00:46:37] I want to build a team

[00:46:39] where all the team members are aligned

[00:46:41] on a singular vision

[00:46:45] it's extremely difficult life

[00:46:47] of a founder as well as early employees

[00:46:49] of a startup because there is so much

[00:46:51] uncertainties, ambiguous environments

[00:46:53] so many challenges that you have solved

[00:46:55] as a founder's perspective

[00:46:57] I want my employees to be aligned

[00:46:59] they should feel

[00:47:01] that this is my company

[00:47:03] that we are going towards a singular vision

[00:47:07] from an employee's perspective

[00:47:09] I'm sacrificing so much to work on a startup

[00:47:13] and they should feel

[00:47:15] I'm doing this, I'm sacrificing this

[00:47:17] because

[00:47:19] there is some thing that I will get

[00:47:21] at the end of it

[00:47:25] and so that's why that alignment

[00:47:27] is so important for a startup

[00:47:29] equities are offered

[00:47:31] by start based companies as well

[00:47:33] Microsoft, Facebook all of them offer equities

[00:47:35] in different ways like you might have heard about

[00:47:37] ESOPs, there is a direct equity

[00:47:39] to do it

[00:47:41] and so that's for the prospective employees

[00:47:43] from the founders, we want

[00:47:45] a collective alignment

[00:47:47] for a singular vision

[00:47:51] but it is not just contained on that

[00:47:53] it has a much broader implications

[00:47:57] when you offer equity to employees

[00:47:59] of a startup

[00:48:01] I want to give an example

[00:48:03] of PayPal, Google and

[00:48:05] Facebook

[00:48:07] they were a startup at some point

[00:48:09] become very successful

[00:48:13] the first three employees of

[00:48:15] PayPal

[00:48:17] they build YouTube

[00:48:19] they build LinkedIn

[00:48:21] they will Yelp

[00:48:23] Tesla, SpaceX

[00:48:25] these are the companies that early employees

[00:48:27] offer startup built

[00:48:29] same with the Google, same with the Facebook

[00:48:33] one company

[00:48:35] and the employees of those companies

[00:48:37] went on to build 100 different companies

[00:48:39] now

[00:48:41] why did that happen

[00:48:43] two things

[00:48:45] early employees of a startup

[00:48:47] are the most well equipped

[00:48:49] to become a founder

[00:48:51] because they have gone through the experience

[00:48:53] of what it takes to build a company

[00:48:55] what it takes to be successful

[00:48:57] both from technical sense

[00:48:59] in terms of what we need to do

[00:49:01] what kind of work life balance it will be

[00:49:03] when to take funding

[00:49:05] all of these things

[00:49:07] also from the perspective of finances

[00:49:09] why did

[00:49:11] Elon Musk was able to start

[00:49:13] Tesla or SpaceX

[00:49:15] well because he became a millionaire

[00:49:17] after the first startup

[00:49:19] why did he become a millionaire

[00:49:21] because he had an equity on the startup

[00:49:23] which became successful

[00:49:25] and so now I want to come back

[00:49:27] to why is it relevant for Nepal

[00:49:29] we as a sort of founders

[00:49:32] we have been very lucky

[00:49:34] that

[00:49:36] particularly I would say myself

[00:49:38] I went to US study there

[00:49:40] had the network

[00:49:42] had the people, had the friends

[00:49:44] to raise funds to build a startup

[00:49:46] not everyone in Nepal

[00:49:48] have that sort of opportunity

[00:49:50] they are not as lucky as I was

[00:49:52] and so how can we help

[00:49:54] like people here

[00:49:56] who have great ideas

[00:49:58] to sort of build a unicorn

[00:50:00] to build a billion dollar company

[00:50:02] so imagine like

[00:50:04] there are 30 startups all over the world

[00:50:06] imagine we have

[00:50:08] Nepalese people who are residing here

[00:50:10] the fresh graduates who are working on these startups

[00:50:12] who have equity on these startups

[00:50:14] imagine few of these companies

[00:50:16] become successful

[00:50:18] they become billion dollar companies

[00:50:20] we want to be one of those

[00:50:23] what happens

[00:50:25] well first like people who are in Nepal

[00:50:27] they will learn how to build a billion dollar company

[00:50:29] well they will have equity

[00:50:31] so they will become millionaires

[00:50:33] and amazing thing about startup is

[00:50:35] people who work on a startup

[00:50:37] startup life is very difficult as I mentioned

[00:50:39] it requires particular

[00:50:41] sort of skills like risk taking

[00:50:43] off work life balance is pretty

[00:50:45] weird

[00:50:47] it's very challenging environment

[00:50:49] so not everyone can work in a startup

[00:50:51] but people who work on a startup

[00:50:53] these want to build things

[00:50:55] these guys are builders

[00:50:57] and so imagine like

[00:50:59] there are people in Nepal

[00:51:01] who become millionaires because

[00:51:03] they work on a startup who are

[00:51:05] outside Nepal

[00:51:07] what do you think these guys will do next

[00:51:09] I'll let you

[00:51:11] have that imaginations

[00:51:13] so I just wanted to add

[00:51:15] give the context

[00:51:17] I've worked with Sondhan so

[00:51:19] he's raised 8 million US dollars

[00:51:21] in US and we're discussing

[00:51:23] about structuring and then I told him

[00:51:25] there are so many things and

[00:51:27] which was more on a negative side

[00:51:29] of legal issues

[00:51:31] we understand the risk

[00:51:33] I still want to be in Nepal

[00:51:35] despite all of this context

[00:51:37] and all of these regulatory issues

[00:51:39] people are here they're coming back

[00:51:41] and they're trying to do something

[00:51:43] outside the box

[00:51:45] and I understand if his product

[00:51:47] is successful it will change the world

[00:51:49] so all the best at that

[00:51:51] I just want to remember one thing

[00:51:53] right so what happens

[00:51:55] when startups raise

[00:51:57] funds in the US and they want to build

[00:51:59] some kind of team in Nepal

[00:52:01] we received an email

[00:52:03] last week one of the venture fund

[00:52:05] when the capital fund wants to come

[00:52:07] to Nepal and see the team that we can

[00:52:09] build in Nepal that's the first

[00:52:11] step when US venture funds

[00:52:13] will come to Nepal I want to see

[00:52:15] how things are being done here

[00:52:17] that's the first step

[00:52:19] I've also been in a lot of deals

[00:52:21] Nepalese

[00:52:23] people who have graduated in US

[00:52:25] they've started both in US

[00:52:27] and Nepal and

[00:52:29] Donald transaction has a really great valuation

[00:52:31] so there are a lot of success stories

[00:52:33] there in that sense so I think we

[00:52:35] probably need to kind of move now

[00:52:37] in terms of what we've heard

[00:52:39] there are a lot of things about

[00:52:41] entrepreneurs are taking risks

[00:52:43] yes there are issues but

[00:52:45] lawyers are helping to find the loopholes

[00:52:47] and you know like we believe in this

[00:52:49] we'll take that risk and you know

[00:52:51] all of that context is there I think

[00:52:53] in this sense one of the

[00:52:55] aspects I think we talked about

[00:52:57] growth and ambition right so

[00:52:59] I think Prithiv also talked

[00:53:01] about India, Nepal and that

[00:53:03] I think where is this next

[00:53:05] growth I mean how do

[00:53:07] entrepreneurs from Nepal

[00:53:09] how do they grow how do they

[00:53:11] go big probably something

[00:53:13] you can also talk about

[00:53:15] sure thank you

[00:53:17] so

[00:53:19] just one example like I was thinking about it

[00:53:21] there's a company called Cloud Factory

[00:53:23] Mark Shearer is the founder

[00:53:25] who has raised millions of dollars

[00:53:27] when he started the company it was

[00:53:29] here in Nepal

[00:53:31] but it limited the growth

[00:53:33] while it said after the company

[00:53:35] they set up because he had that

[00:53:37] luxury because he was not a Nepali

[00:53:39] for people like you and I who are

[00:53:41] a Nepali and we are the Nepali

[00:53:43] citizens we are limited not

[00:53:45] to invest outside right

[00:53:47] so I think one of the reason

[00:53:49] why the growth is limited is there

[00:53:51] right and then you know

[00:53:53] I just wanted to get into the

[00:53:55] regulatory aspect of this too

[00:53:57] when you think about

[00:53:59] when you talk to people from

[00:54:01] capital control what is the

[00:54:03] capital control?

[00:54:05] The reaction that you get is

[00:54:07] Nepal is a vulnerable country

[00:54:09] it's going to be destroyed

[00:54:11] and it will be destroyed

[00:54:13] especially this narration

[00:54:15] today it's a body coil

[00:54:17] it's Shilanka and Pakistan

[00:54:19] with current account deficit

[00:54:21] or balance of payment issue

[00:54:23] that's the narration

[00:54:25] but

[00:54:27] what is also very important

[00:54:29] to understand that Nepal

[00:54:31] is not neither Shilanka

[00:54:33] nor Pakistan

[00:54:35] if you look at our

[00:54:37] the foreign currency reserves

[00:54:39] or the dowry

[00:54:41] the panic button is

[00:54:43] okay

[00:54:45] and the panic button

[00:54:47] is to stop the import of luxury

[00:54:49] items

[00:54:51] we sit on around 13

[00:54:53] billion dollars of reserves

[00:54:55] and around 12 months

[00:54:57] plus months of

[00:54:59] equivalent import of goods and services

[00:55:01] I think the regulators also need

[00:55:03] to understand

[00:55:05] this cannot be a one way

[00:55:07] road

[00:55:09] the growth of the road

[00:55:11] is not bound

[00:55:13] to export

[00:55:15] to export

[00:55:17] to export to make the 7

[00:55:19] raw materials

[00:55:21] to find the material

[00:55:23] to export to export

[00:55:25] to export to export

[00:55:27] that's what is important

[00:55:29] so one is that

[00:55:31] the second thing

[00:55:33] in the IT sector

[00:55:35] there is a very good

[00:55:37] opportunity

[00:55:39] and earlier he was saying

[00:55:41] what I am convinced is

[00:55:43] we have recently invested in

[00:55:45] manufacturing company

[00:55:47] Nepal's manufacturing is

[00:55:49] not connected

[00:55:51] to the end to end value chain

[00:55:53] if you try to

[00:55:55] invest in

[00:55:57] if it's a large scale product

[00:55:59] production garden

[00:56:01] raw material is not bound

[00:56:03] to be given every month

[00:56:05] how to do the production

[00:56:07] of raw materials

[00:56:09] is to export to make the

[00:56:11] product

[00:56:13] the third growth

[00:56:15] is the natural end outment

[00:56:17] energy

[00:56:19] and cement

[00:56:21] where we have a benefit

[00:56:23] or non-tradable tourism

[00:56:25] there is growth

[00:56:27] but as long as

[00:56:29] it's not

[00:56:31] outside

[00:56:33] how do you grow it?

[00:57:03] the main SDG

[00:57:05] and to ensure we are as close

[00:57:07] as possible to our production

[00:57:09] so

[00:57:11] internationally where I see

[00:57:13] that anybody who has eaten

[00:57:15] kawli aloo

[00:57:17] versus gobi aloo

[00:57:19] knows that

[00:57:21] even though

[00:57:23] the Indian cuisine

[00:57:25] is very similar

[00:57:27] we are wide apart in the way

[00:57:29] we cook our food

[00:57:31] with the way we are producing

[00:57:33] our food in our part of the world

[00:57:35] I think it's also a major contributing factor

[00:57:37] the water is a major contributing factor

[00:57:39] so what has happened with us

[00:57:41] and especially in my business

[00:57:43] in my line of business is that

[00:57:45] we have realized that more and more people

[00:57:47] who are going abroad

[00:57:49] are now looking for food

[00:57:51] that is manufactured in Nepal

[00:57:53] so going back to what Pithvi was saying

[00:57:55] if you are not able to find food

[00:57:57] because it's very expensive

[00:57:59] and you are drinking a Nepali

[00:58:01] aqua 100 kawli water

[00:58:03] versus you are drinking maybe Bisleri or aqua

[00:58:05] in India

[00:58:07] you will know there is a difference

[00:58:09] and that in itself is a major problem for us

[00:58:11] so going back to the question

[00:58:13] of where growth comes into place for us

[00:58:15] is that

[00:58:17] in order for me to get economies of scale

[00:58:19] which comes back to the same question

[00:58:21] about how if I am going to produce things

[00:58:23] for example

[00:58:25] I remember travelling to

[00:58:27] Nepal with Nepalese Association

[00:58:29] to meet with them

[00:58:31] their biggest challenge was that

[00:58:33] Nepali people

[00:58:35] don't have premium basmati rice

[00:58:37] they will look for jeera masino

[00:58:39] or marsi rice

[00:58:41] which is only manufactured in Nepal

[00:58:43] now where this becomes a problem

[00:58:45] is because we need to have it

[00:58:47] how do I say

[00:58:49] production phase has to be done

[00:58:51] machine made

[00:58:53] when we are going to get economies of scale

[00:58:55] machine got out of high day

[00:58:57] so when we are going to get economies of scale

[00:58:59] that production

[00:59:01] that security will not come for us

[00:59:03] now food is often a very overlooked

[00:59:05] place when we are talking about it

[00:59:07] in such organizations because

[00:59:09] we are not thinking about it

[00:59:11] but as a Nepali I know that most

[00:59:13] Nepalese who go abroad also

[00:59:15] I have that thing that

[00:59:17] when we are not eating anything

[00:59:19] we don't feel like eating

[00:59:21] after that

[00:59:23] even if you are just a business life

[00:59:25] you can see your opportunity abroad

[00:59:27] like

[00:59:29] in America

[00:59:31] nowadays we have to eat

[00:59:33] in Texas we have to eat

[00:59:35] and that is the biggest challenge

[00:59:37] that is the Nepali people

[00:59:39] so another vertical that

[00:59:41] Pakma launch does is that

[00:59:43] we have an event catering company

[00:59:45] so lot of conversations come around this thing

[00:59:47] that

[00:59:49] why would you want to open a branch here

[00:59:51] that is specialized in understanding

[00:59:53] that after having fed over a million meals

[00:59:55] in the last 10 years

[00:59:57] we understand what a Nepali wants to eat

[00:59:59] so this is the only way

[01:00:01] out for us to bring down our prices

[01:00:03] at home is to grow internationally

[01:00:05] I will just give you the context

[01:00:07] of why we are talking about growth from a legal

[01:00:09] perspective

[01:00:11] we have a law in Nepal

[01:00:13] which restricts Nepali citizens

[01:00:15] to invest outside

[01:00:17] they can't open any bank account

[01:00:19] they cannot open any companies outside

[01:00:21] and this law is more than

[01:00:23] 60 years old

[01:00:25] so we have not really

[01:00:27] this again problem is about

[01:00:29] you know

[01:00:31] we not really have that habit

[01:00:33] of re-looking at the past

[01:00:35] and see does that really work

[01:00:37] we don't see

[01:00:39] things every 5 years periodically

[01:00:41] we don't kind of review it

[01:00:43] so what is preventing is let's say

[01:00:45] I mean Barasangya beer for example

[01:00:47] they have done quite good in

[01:00:49] Nepalese context

[01:00:51] so if corona beer can come from

[01:00:53] Mexico why can't Barasangya go

[01:00:55] and establish their operation

[01:00:57] anyway for example

[01:00:59] Indaprabili is a really great market

[01:01:01] we have similar taste

[01:01:03] in a similar geographic area

[01:01:05] so I think from a regulatory context

[01:01:07] this has been a really big problem

[01:01:09] and when we add this in IT sector

[01:01:11] IT sector is even chronic

[01:01:13] because you know

[01:01:15] in IT sector the whole issue is

[01:01:17] about do I do product

[01:01:19] do I do services right

[01:01:21] Nepal currently in IT sector

[01:01:23] is a cost center

[01:01:25] we just work on a cost plus margin

[01:01:27] basis intellectual property

[01:01:29] is in the US

[01:01:31] I think that's what we'll probably need to change

[01:01:33] because local entrepreneurs

[01:01:35] local IT guys

[01:01:37] should be able to go and establish

[01:01:39] companies in US

[01:01:41] what does that allow them

[01:01:43] you know

[01:01:45] wrap their copyright

[01:01:47] on a really good protection system

[01:01:49] raise funds outside

[01:01:51] because I don't think any US investors

[01:01:53] are more freely

[01:01:55] willing in terms of

[01:01:57] investing compared to

[01:01:59] when they have a choice between

[01:02:01] jurisdiction of investing in Nepal and US

[01:02:03] definitely fund raising in

[01:02:05] US is going to be a lot more

[01:02:07] when we do our due diligence for

[01:02:09] our US clients they have so many issues

[01:02:11] so many red flags in terms of really coming

[01:02:13] and operating and investing in Nepal

[01:02:15] so I think this law

[01:02:17] from a regulatory context of

[01:02:19] really going out is this is

[01:02:21] one particular issue that we

[01:02:23] really need to kind of address from a growth

[01:02:25] context so just from

[01:02:27] the law point of view

[01:02:29] I forgot to mention

[01:02:31] I know we spoke about Prasuma

[01:02:33] last year we had gone to India for another business

[01:02:35] there's an annual

[01:02:37] trade show called Ahar

[01:02:39] and when we had gone there it's for the hospitality

[01:02:41] industry the one thing that we saw

[01:02:43] is that Prasuma

[01:02:45] I don't know if any of you remember that

[01:02:47] but I thought of

[01:02:49] Prasuma meet with your

[01:02:51] process meet my

[01:02:53] so when I went to India what I saw

[01:02:55] was that every major departmental

[01:02:57] store every

[01:02:59] there's one called nature's basket

[01:03:01] which is actually a gourmet

[01:03:03] grocery store

[01:03:05] which is in like the most

[01:03:07] expensive places so

[01:03:09] assuming that this is in Juhu

[01:03:11] which is where all the Bollywood stars live

[01:03:13] and they come and shop at nature's basket

[01:03:15] Prasuma meet was what was going there

[01:03:17] so apparently

[01:03:19] during Covid I think they

[01:03:21] increased production and they

[01:03:23] went

[01:03:25] I think they increased their turnover

[01:03:27] to 500 crores in a

[01:03:29] two years time during Covid

[01:03:31] so imagine being able to do that

[01:03:33] there and bringing back all the knowledge

[01:03:35] that you can get whether it's in machinery

[01:03:37] or production and then bringing it back

[01:03:39] home and still allowing

[01:03:41] Nepalese people to have the same product

[01:03:43] but at cheaper rates simply because

[01:03:45] you can get economies of scale

[01:03:47] in India and then bring it back

[01:03:49] home so I thought that was a great idea

[01:03:51] Yes I think that was it and I think

[01:03:53] Sobdav we are also discussing in terms of really

[01:03:55] going out growth limitation

[01:03:57] you had given an example of phone

[01:03:59] pay they did took them 20 years

[01:04:01] or

[01:04:03] you know they are

[01:04:05] if you look at

[01:04:07] successful start ups too

[01:04:09] phone pay food

[01:04:11] mandu or any other

[01:04:13] they are more than 10 years old

[01:04:15] they are teenagers now

[01:04:17] so Nepal has a time lapse

[01:04:19] so Nepal has a time lapse

[01:04:21] so if you let them go outside

[01:04:23] they will grow fast

[01:04:25] and what I have pointed out is

[01:04:27] if the regulation

[01:04:29] will not allow Nepalese companies

[01:04:31] to go outside then the entrepreneur

[01:04:33] will go especially the digital

[01:04:35] entrepreneurs right

[01:04:37] you know

[01:04:39] places like Singapore, Dubai

[01:04:41] and Golden visas right

[01:04:43] or Europe countries

[01:04:45] software and software

[01:04:47] there is time lagging

[01:04:49] so I think for

[01:04:51] Nepal's benefit

[01:04:53] if you go outside

[01:04:55] open office or invest

[01:04:57] another one point

[01:04:59] I will give you one last example

[01:05:01] quickly

[01:05:03] I looked at it

[01:05:05] Pakistan

[01:05:07] at one time

[01:05:09] Pakistan's foreign currency reserve

[01:05:11] I am in the San Jose

[01:05:13] Pakistan

[01:05:15] the Prime Minister

[01:05:17] the start up of the stock

[01:05:19] will be $25,000

[01:05:21] because they understand the value

[01:05:23] so why

[01:05:25] we are not understanding the value

[01:05:27] I think there is no reason we are just

[01:05:29] casing our entrepreneurs

[01:05:31] and from an economic side

[01:05:33] of things if you allow them to invest

[01:05:35] the dividend is coming back here

[01:05:37] if you don't allow them I don't know where dividend goes

[01:05:39] it goes somewhere else not here

[01:05:41] I think that's one important context

[01:05:43] to take home from a regulatory context

[01:05:45] I just want to now shift

[01:05:47] to another point we have been discussing

[01:05:49] about really incentive driven

[01:05:51] workforce and demographic

[01:05:53] dividend I think more

[01:05:55] than to your business

[01:05:57] so how do you see like

[01:05:59] what are your issues really

[01:06:01] day to day dealing with the business

[01:06:03] because I think you are dependent on

[01:06:05] chefs and other people

[01:06:07] just

[01:06:09] how the context you are dealing with

[01:06:11] so Hamid, demographic

[01:06:13] dividend

[01:06:15] earlier there was an exodus

[01:06:17] of blue collar jobs going abroad

[01:06:19] we are seeing that a lot of white

[01:06:21] collar jobs are going

[01:06:23] there is a little joke that goes around

[01:06:25] in our company

[01:06:27] I think we have about 4 or 5 people

[01:06:29] from Pakmaelunch one hour in Canada

[01:06:31] all in Vancouver you know so they have a mini meet up

[01:06:33] every time we have a meet up here

[01:06:35] they have a meet up there

[01:06:37] what has happened is that

[01:06:39] the mid management level is leaving

[01:06:41] which means that every time they leave

[01:06:43] the entrepreneurs have to go back

[01:06:45] to the day to day businesses managing

[01:06:47] everything on a regular basis

[01:06:49] which does not allow us to focus

[01:06:51] on the business sector

[01:06:53] whether it is strategizing

[01:06:55] whether it is doing anything

[01:06:57] that may help grow the business

[01:06:59] exponentially

[01:07:01] similarly coming back to the incentive

[01:07:03] case that you spoke about

[01:07:05] incentive

[01:07:07] and that is not directly linked

[01:07:09] to your performance

[01:07:11] so it means whether or not

[01:07:13] you are performing well in the company

[01:07:15] it is a said

[01:07:17] how do I say this

[01:07:19] I am asking for it

[01:07:21] now in our industry

[01:07:23] there are more blue collar jobs

[01:07:25] so the festival is going to be

[01:07:27] 10th year

[01:07:29] so we are going to go home

[01:07:31] and come back to the business

[01:07:33] what else will happen

[01:07:35] as we have strategized

[01:07:37] KPI will give

[01:07:39] that KPI will give

[01:07:41] incentive

[01:07:43] we have to legally

[01:07:45] go there because

[01:07:47] where we do not have

[01:07:49] any particular productivity

[01:07:51] we have to go there

[01:07:53] and even in demographics

[01:07:55] we have noticed

[01:07:57] that we have to do internal migration

[01:07:59] so it was very difficult

[01:08:01] because there are so many

[01:08:03] we have also done a lot of skill level

[01:08:05] whereas we even start with housekeeping

[01:08:07] dish washing and all that does not require

[01:08:09] that much knowledge and skill

[01:08:11] so when it comes to giving them

[01:08:13] incentives

[01:08:15] we are not going to be setting them apart

[01:08:17] because that skill is not being

[01:08:19] utilized properly

[01:08:21] so in the demographic

[01:08:23] there are many issues

[01:08:25] Nepal is a

[01:08:27] we really bank on tourism

[01:08:29] and we hope that this is what is going to bring us

[01:08:31] a lot of income

[01:08:33] but we are not doing enough to keep people back here

[01:08:35] which means that anyone in the service industry

[01:08:37] then has the same problem

[01:08:39] whether it is a big hotel

[01:08:41] because of course we are not competitive

[01:08:43] and we have to go to the other

[01:08:45] galleries and I cannot expect anybody

[01:08:47] to stay back

[01:08:49] I have not seen this problem

[01:08:51] I have seen many people

[01:08:53] who are not doing well

[01:08:55] they are saying that

[01:08:57] they have income

[01:08:59] one person is only enough

[01:09:01] to educate the person

[01:09:03] because of course we are not providing

[01:09:05] that infrastructural issues

[01:09:07] things like no access to running water

[01:09:09] and things like that

[01:09:11] and also noticing is that

[01:09:13] I have a personal experience

[01:09:15] I have experienced it

[01:09:17] I went abroad

[01:09:19] and the blue collar jobs

[01:09:21] they didn't have a future so they came back

[01:09:23] if you are going for white collar jobs

[01:09:25] you are going to get families

[01:09:27] Nepalis are not returning back

[01:09:29] so does that mean as an entrepreneur

[01:09:31] where do I find that mid-level management

[01:09:33] because bankers are going to work

[01:09:35] in restaurants now

[01:09:37] so how do we get that

[01:09:39] level playing field for us

[01:09:41] I think it is an issue that

[01:09:43] while we think

[01:09:45] our asset is young population

[01:09:47] and literate population

[01:09:49] actually when you look at the business

[01:09:51] it is not that true

[01:09:53] for example in my own legal service

[01:09:55] with the income that I have

[01:09:57] we have 40 lawyers

[01:09:59] so it has not been a problem now

[01:10:01] but if I have to hire 100 lawyers

[01:10:03] it is definitely going to be a problem

[01:10:05] so I was talking with some IT guys

[01:10:07] in two days they recruited

[01:10:09] 1000 people for a call center

[01:10:11] it is not going to happen in Nepal

[01:10:13] if you want to recruit 500 people

[01:10:15] in Nepal in IT sector

[01:10:17] that is going to be really tough

[01:10:19] I think the market is like this

[01:10:21] so I think that demographic dividend

[01:10:23] probably is a myth

[01:10:25] in terms of when you talk about the entrepreneurship

[01:10:27] and the turnover in your business

[01:10:29] the sales coming in and living in 3 months

[01:10:33] problematic for you to really plan

[01:10:35] growth in that context

[01:10:37] so I think we have about

[01:10:39] 21 minutes probably we should go to

[01:10:41] the floor

[01:10:43] and idea is more than questions

[01:10:45] I think it would be really nice

[01:10:47] to hear your experience

[01:10:49] thought process

[01:10:51] the project somebody is more like

[01:10:53] let's have a discussion

[01:10:55] we all have been experiences

[01:10:57] with that and we have friends from NYEF

[01:10:59] as well today

[01:11:01] so it is really great to hear your perspective

[01:11:03] I will open the floor for discussion